SOUTHPORT — In a joint meeting last week, Southport aldermen still had questions about how to best utilize its former historic courthouse, currently undergoing abatement.
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Built in 1854, the 170-year-old structure is a National Historic Landmark, designated as the Brunswick County Courthouse until 1978. It then served as Southport City Hall until 2014 before becoming the police department until 2016.
The courthouse sat empty in the last eight years. Last week’s meeting indicated two groups — Center for the Arts in Southport and the city — are still at odds over a firm vision. Some aldermen are now entertaining the idea for it to become a police department and city council chambers, instead of an arts venue and city council chambers, as proposed by CAS.
The courthouse has been in disrepair since it shuttered in 2016. Former board of aldermen signed a memorandum of understanding a little less than a decade ago with an organization called Up Your Arts, to prepare for potential renovation. CAS was then launched out of Up Your Arts and has spent an undisclosed amount with Lisle Architecture and Design to mock up potential ideas on the courthouse renovation.
Earlier this summer, the city financed the building’s cleanup: $29,500 has been paid to HICAPS consultants, $151,110 to Rhino Demolition and Environmental, and $78,200 to Environmental Air Monitoring.
City engineer Tom Zilinek is overseeing the project, with the demo of internal areas, including removal of carpet and a drop ceiling, taking place in September. Environmental abatement started earlier this month and the plan is to remove asbestos, lead and mold in three phases, with completion slated by December.
What happens thereafter remains in the air.
CAS’s 17-member board wants to restore the building to its former glory and is ready to fundraise for its upfit. But since the courthouse is owned by the city, the aldermen must agree to its shared usage.
“We can’t, in good faith, request funding from other sources of any kind, really, without some kind of agreement in place with the city,” CAS representative Mark Bachara told aldermen last week.
One thing all aldermen agreed upon: They want their council chambers back, to be reserved for them Monday at 8 a.m. through Friday at 1 p.m. This would be located on the second floor and would be flex space to convert into the performance hall.
Alderman Karen Mosteller said the city has regularly scheduled meetings, but also emergency meetings, not to mention its numerous boards, including planning, parks and recreation, and the like. So blocking off that time would be mandatory, in her mind.
Her colleague, Frank Lai, agreed and said recently they had nine meetings in a month and needed to make accommodations.
Alderman Lowe Davis pointed to the EMS financial agreement emergency meeting held the same Monday as CAS’s joint meeting: “It came together in a hurry.”
CAS envisions 201 E. Moore St. as an arts hub, to feature performances in music and theater, including national tours from chambers, musicians and theatrical companies. The nonprofit would rent out the main performance hall and council chambers for other events when not being used as city hall.
But with council’s restrictions, it means performances and events would be limited to weekends only. More so, all Friday night performances couldn’t access the space until 1 p.m.
“No designs or things behind our heads — no stuff like that,” Mayor Rich Alt said at the meeting. “So if you came in on Friday afternoon, and that’s the time that you had, could you survive on that?”
CAS wants to apply for grants — historic and arts-based — to help with the expected $4-million renovation of the courthouse, which would relieve taxpayers from funding the building’s upfit. The group has yet to fundraise for the money, as a lease agreement has to be in place to apply for many grants. The group suspects it could take four years to raise the funds and begin construction.
Bachara said he would go back to the CAS board — particularly its program committee — to see how they could accommodate. He noted the team had come up with an approximate general operating budget of $250,000 a year.
“Can we survive and sustain only on weekend performances?” he asked rhetorically. “Well, we need to figure that out, and if we can accommodate that, then I don’t think the timing and priority will be an issue.”
He said sustaining grants and local fundraising campaigns also would be launched.
According to Alderman Karen Mosteller, there are $52-million in capital needs the city faces in the next six years. There has been talk for the town police department to be housed back in the courthouse as well.
Alt said there are only so many buildings the city has access to, in order to fit its needs. He added the courthouse can accommodate a “big hunk” of it.
“We have a fiduciary responsibility to the citizens of Southport,” Alt said at the meeting. “And part of that is trying to figure out how we manage multi-million-dollar projects on a 25-cent budget. … unless somebody has $6 million in their pocket for a new police department. There’s all these competing things going on and it’s all about money.”
Mosteller brought up the public works building, which is reaching the end of its life, and if torn down could be rebuilt for the police department, and move public works to Howe Street. She also reminded the aldermen that when it had a police and city hall planning study completed last year, they were told the first floor of the courthouse would not work for the PD.
“We’ve got resources and assets to work through, but we have a situation where we have this nonprofit that we can have a public-private partnership with, who have assembled a whole group of smart people to help figure this out,” she said. “I’m not saying we’re making a commitment today. I think what we need to give them is enough information for them to decide, does their business model work … and let them bring that back.”
Alt asked the Southport police chief to step up to the lectern. The mayor said he had numerous conversations with Todd Coring regarding the first floor of the courthouse in recent months. The mayor queried Coring in front of the aldermen to ask if the courthouse had sufficient space for his department; Coring said yes.
“I have a unique perspective on this because I was a seat at the aldermen when we came out of that building,” he said. “It was supposed to be a temporary move for the police department to relocate while that building was addressed and taken care of.”
Coring added renderings of the police department going onto the bottom floor of the courthouse had been done before by Moseley Architects. In addition, he said the department could use the multi-purpose rooms upstairs for trainings, if need be.
“At first, we were not using that location because we knew there were other eyes and ideas for the building,” Coring said.
Moseley’s renderings were news to the aldermen.
Coring told the board it was suggested years ago the police department could go into the 2,000-square-foot public works building, 1010 N Howe St., as well. But it was determined, at that time, a 4,000-square-foot-building would be needed.
The police department is temporarily in a 2,600-square-foot building at 1669-A N Howe St. It moved last month and signed a five-year lease; Coring told aldermen it’s spending around $70,000 to be located “in a smaller space.”
“My point is,” Alt said, “taking the public works building down: cost. Building a police department: cost. Putting a new building for the public works: cost. Where do we get all that money from? As opposed to using the current building we have to house the police department and city hall … for all of our needs.”
The mayor also expressed concerns that Southport already has multiple venues supporting the arts. He pointed to Franklin Square Park, Brunswick Community College’s Odell Williamson Auditorium, Brunswick Little Theater, the Amuzu Theater, and multiple other businesses along Southport’s downtown square.
“We have, at my last count, 17 places that have music,” Alt said, asking Bachara if he and the CAS board reached out to business owners about potential competition. “This is underwritten by the taxpayers of Southport … Is that fair to the businessmen?”
Bachara assured he has spoken with area arts business owners, many of whom have shown support for the project: “We’re not intending to supplant any of the businesses or venues in the area but only enhance them and augment them and sort of be a central hub to support them.”
Alt also homed in on particulars of CAS’ business plan, such as whether the nonprofit would give discounted rates to Southport taxpayers hosting events over out-of-town artists. Fine details are still being worked through, Bachara informed, explaining insofar only a basic budget and revenue stream have been accounted for.
Right now, he reminded, the goal was to see if a shared use could be agreed upon. If so, then the CAS board, made up of 17 various people volunteering time and expertise from varying professions — for example, a commercial construction manager, federal grant manager, and financial manager — could start fundraising and ironing out all the details.
Davis brought up the event space being in competition with the city’s community arts center if it were to host weddings.
“I just read this past week,” she said, “comparing the average cost of weddings around the country. North Carolina is the third most expensive place to have a wedding, all things considered. … The venue itself in North Carolina averages $9,000, which means we are under-charging.”
CAS board member Brad Sevaldson clarified it’s not to be used for wedding receptions “over and over.” He said it would be an arts and meeting space, for lectures and other events.
“I volunteer at the visitor center,” Sevaldson continued. “People are interested in the history of Southport, and [the historic courthouse] needs to be something where we can share the history and where we can show chamber music, jazz, arts, touring shows — the opportunities are endless.”
Another CAS board member, Steve Tabankin, inquired as to whether all city council meetings would need to be in the main ballroom. He wondered if a conference room, for example, would be appropriate in certain instances instead.
With all six members of the board in attendance, Alt said they are committed to keeping the meetings open to the public and thus would need the larger space. Already, they’re facing issues at Indian Trail, one of its meeting places, only having a dozen seats.
Understanding how the two could co-exist took up a good deal of discussion. This included technological sticking points, such as audio-visual programs and white boards required to livestream council’s meetings. With walls already torn out, CAS board member Tom Bice said they could build it back with proper wiring.
“Now is the best time to accommodate the video and streaming technologies,” he said. “We’ve had conversations that every room in the building should be equipped with audio, video, land lines and a distribution amplifier, so you can pick and choose what audio and video goes where, and that’s how it should be set up if you’re going to do a first-class building.”
Alt worried over potential lack of revenue due to the performance hall being open only on weekends. While grants may be applied for upfront, the building’s upkeep — insurance, utilities, proper care — also had to be accounted for. He pointed out CAS’ funding consists currently of $57,000 to go toward architectural fees; otherwise, it’s at zero.
“Until you have a business model that can show that you can pay for everything else along the way, and figure out how Southport is going to be able to house its government, I don’t know how we go forward with this,” he said.
However, Alt also conceded the government needed to get its business needs in order, too.
Bice said he thought a collaborative approach would allow the city and CAS to “get smarter together.” He also defended the CAS committees who have begun discussing operating budgets to cover insurance and ongoing needs, as well as continuing to perform due diligence on the project.
More so, he called the destination an attraction.
“It will draw people to the city,” he said.
Bachara was clear CAS was willing to work with the city, but he questioned the board’s intentions. If a police department is to go back into the building, he said, it doesn’t matter if CAS works out the numbers so council can have access all day, five days a week.
“I think you’ve nailed it,” Alt said. “This board has to decide what it wants to do.”
The mayor suggested City Clerk Noah Saldo to access the police department renderings mentioned by Chief Coring. Alt told CAS to take the information about council chambers closed off weekdays except after Friday at 1 p.m. to see if that would work with the board’s financial outlook.
The two will come back together to discuss further.
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