SOUTHPORT — A local arts organization will get its sit-down with Southport officials after much delay, regarding a partnership on the historic renovation of a centuries-old, yet empty, courthouse.
READ MORE: Southport historic courthouse renovations move forward, its end purpose still unknown
The Brunswick County Historic Courthouse — formerly Southport’s city hall — is in need of dire repairs; the Center for Arts of Southport is willing to fundraise to make the upfit happen. First, it needs to meet with city officials to hash out whether it’s joining a public-private partnership and entering a lease agreement to share the space; aldermen voted 4-2 to hear out the nonprofit.
An undisclosed amount has already been spent with Lisle Architecture and Design to mock up potential ideas on the renovation.
Meanwhile, the city has agreed to foot the bill for an environmental review of the building, and according to city manager Bonnie Thierren, the request for proposals has drawn in lower bids than the city’s anticipated $700,000 spend. The structure is contaminated with mold and asbestos, which will need to be remediated before remodeling can begin.
The 170-year-old structure — a National Historic Landmark that once was designated as the Brunswick County Courthouse from 1854 until 1978 and then as Southport City Hall until 2014 — was last renovated 41 years ago. After city hall shuttered, the police department was housed there until 2016.
Since, it’s been vacant, but CAS envisions it becoming an arts hub, staging multiple performances and renting out space for events and weddings, all the while sharing space with city hall.
“I think it’s a rising tide effect,” chair of CAS, Mark Bachara, told the aldermen at their June 21 meeting. “It could benefit everyone … it seems like a win-win.”
Once upfitted, Bachara added the goal is to gain enough in revenue to exceed operating costs and maintain the building, without burdening the taxpayer.
Bachara pointed to a recent national arts survey, noting more than $2 billion comes in statewide from this sector and provides almost 40,000 jobs.
For almost a decade, Up Your Arts — another nonprofit that works toward all arts participation in Southport — has been requesting a public-private partnership with the city to transform the historic structure, estimated to need $4 million in repairs. CAS organized out of Up Your Arts, which had already secured a memorandum of understanding with the city years ago to prepare for potential renovation.
Bachara presented plans that show the two-story structure would be home to multiple offices, art studios, flex space, a teaching kitchen, and cafe on the first floor. The second level would be the gathering hall and main events space — to seat 240 people — also where aldermen chambers would be.
“While maintaining the historic integrity of the exterior, there will be some significant changes inside, as you might expect, along with outdoor meeting places, rooftop areas,” Bachara explained to the board.
Some aldermen issued concerns that shared space with the nonprofit would mean not receiving priority to reserve the events hall.
“Would we have to get in line there or would the board of aldermen bump everybody else?” Alderman Frank Lai asked.
Bachara said that’s a planned part of negotiations. He added he knew the city was “in need of a more permanent solution,” since it currently switches up its meeting place between the Southport Community Center — which also hosts events — and the Indian Trail Meeting Hall.
While Bachara recognized the city had a responsibility to taxpayers, he said a critical component to sustaining the property would come from performance revenue.
“If it’s going to bring in a substantial amount,” he said. “Obviously, we can’t move the date,” but he added they will accommodate wherever possible.
Bachara suggested hashing out aldermen meeting dates a year in advance for its two regularly scheduled monthly meetings. Bachara also suggested they take place in the daytime hours, since most performances happen in the evening.
But hosting publicly attended meetings in that timeframe was a point of contention for Mayor Rich Alt.
“The idea that we’re going to have daily meetings in order to accommodate a play or music and have three people in this audience, which is what we get for the day meetings, as opposed to a packed house in the evening — it’s going to have to be seriously looked at,” he said. “The purpose of the government’s function is to have the citizens come to us and talk.”
Marc Spencer made it clear the city meets more than two times a month and was concerned about balancing city needs with the venue’s.
“We’re 9 o’clock in the morning. We’re 1 o’clock in the afternoon. We’re an emergency meeting next week,” he said. “We don’t know our schedule. We never know our schedule and if something comes up we’re gonna have to have it. So it’s hard to face that reality that we’ll only be able to use it if it works.”
Alderman Rob Carroll countered it wouldn’t be hard to block time slots for five meetings a month, whether or not they’re used. More so, the space would be easily converted since it’s a flex space, so changing its layout among the city and arts venue needs could be easily done by the venue staff. The alderman thought it would alleviate the burden on city staff, who currently break down and set up at different venues for each aldermen meeting.
“That’s the great thing about being able to partner on this, you would have some opportunities to say what is needed so we can design this around your purpose and our purpose collectively,” Bachara said, adding it would accommodate all technological needs, such as livestreaming, as well.
Mayor Alt countered it’s not just aldermen who meet. The board of adjustment, the planning board, and multiple committees also have needs.
“So that calendar can be really full and that cuts into your profit margin to run the building,” Alt told Bachara. “Otherwise, the only other option is for the city to either purchase land, knock some buildings down and build a multimillion dollar other building. All of those things probably will have to be discussed.”
Bachara requested a workshop with the city to come to a lease agreement or public-private partnership.
Aldermen Lowe Davis questioned the designs presented, particularly the addition to proposed to the courthouse.
“Adding something this big and this new, how does that coincide with historic integrity?” she asked. “I think it may be an impediment to getting historic grants.”
Bachara said the arts organization would be at the behest of any grant requirements and make adjustments as needed. He added CAS has $57,000 to put toward changes for Lisle to make on the designs as need be.
“This is a picture of what could be — it’s not set in stone,” he said, adding the architects have extensive experience in historical preservation. “One of the things we’ve learned through our experience with the [State Historic Preservation Office] is that when you’re doing a renovation to historic property, they certainly want to see a deviation from what is new versus what has been existing. So they don’t want to make an addition look like it’s been there.”
There is no timeline on the project being completed once construction begins, though Carroll suggested allowing at least three years. While figures have estimated it to cost multi-millions, Davis noted it should be doubled.
“My own experience with renovations is that it costs twice as much and takes twice as long as you thought it would,” she said.
Of CAS’s 17-member board, four people are focused on fundraising, which would begin should the city and arts nonprofit reach an agreement.
To pay for the renovations, Bachara said there are multiple options on the table, including grants for historic renovations, offered through the state and federal government. As well, there are historic tax credits but Bachara questioned whether it would be the way the city would want to go, since some of those credits are not offered to municipalities. Thus, it would require the city to retitle the courthouse deed to a private owner — such as CAS — who would lease it back to the city.
“It could be a very convoluted process to do it that way,” Bachara described, though adding it could cut down the total cost of the project by 35%. “But a better way might be to earmark funds from the state legislature or these grants from state organizations or national organizations to preserve historic places.”
He listed examples in Cary, Carrboro, and Shelby, as well as Lincointon. The Lincoln County Courthouse was earmarked for state legislative funds.
“The county, I believe, owned the building and transferred the ownership to the town of Lincolnton on completion,” he said. “They will collaborate with private entities, nonprofit entities to maintain and operate the building while potentially leasing some space.”
He also pointed to the Earl Scruggs Center in Shelby as operational now, after being funded by the North Carolina Humanities Council to transform its county courthouse.
“We’re at a point where we need a commitment,” Bachara said. “Then we can begin the campaign that would lead to construction to completion to operation to maintenance.”
Karen Mosteller motioned to have several “brainstorming sessions” with CAS, to take place once the new city manager, Stuart Turille Jr., comes into office at the beginning of next month. It passed 4-2, with Davis and Spencer dissenting.
PCD reached out to both commissioners to inquire on their reasoning for voting nay but did not hear back by press.
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