NEW HANOVER COUNTY — Attorneys with three North Carolina law firms stood before the New Hanover County Board of Education on Wednesday to vie for the upcoming legal counsel vacancy being left by the board’s current counsel.
READ MORE: NHCS will seek additional legal counsel in wake of Vogel lawsuit
Vogel Law Firm, hired last year, was not among the presenters on Wednesday, indicating the firm will not be seeking to renew its contract with the district after it expires on June 30.
Board member Stephanie Walker told Port City Daily on Wednesday said she did not speak with the firm about its plans to respond to the request for proposals, nor was it brought up to the board at any meeting.
PCD asked the district if administration was notified of Vogel’s planned departure; a spokesperson said they “do not comment on board business.”
Jonathan Vogel also did not return PCD’s request for comment.
Vogel Law Firm has faced criticism on and off the dais since it was hired. The firm has connections and support from the Republican Party and thus faces accusations of favoritism toward conservative perspectives. There have also been concerns over Vogel’s transparency and qualifications as a small boutique firm. It is currently being sued by two former employees and, as a result, NHCS outsources special education cases.
The three firms interviewing to take Vogel’s place included the board’s counsel prior to Vogel, Tharrington Smith, along with Poyner Spruill and Crossley McIntosh & Collier.
The scoring document obtained by PCD shows Tharrington Smith scored the highest, with Poyner Spruill not far behind. Four of the seven board members rated Tharrington Smith slightly higher than Poyner Spruill; board member Stephanie Kraybill scored them the same.
Board member Pat Bradford rated the two firms significantly lower. She and chair Pete Wildeboer favored Crossley McIntosh & Collier and gave them a 25 and 23 (out of 25), while the rest of the board did not score them above an 18.
The voting breakdown is as follows:
| BOE Member | Tharrington Smith | Poyner Spruill | Crossley McIntosh & Collier |
| Stephanie Walker | 25 | 24 | 16 |
| Stephanie Kraybill | 25 | 25 | 9 |
| Hugh McManus | 25 | 25 | 8 |
| Melissa Mason | 21 | 20 | 18 |
| Pete Wildeboer | 21 | 18 | 23 |
| Josie Barnhart | 20 | 19 | 18 |
| Pat Bradford | 10 | 10 | 25 |
| Total | 147 | 141 | 117 |
The decision and probable debate over which firm to choose won’t happen until the board’s regular meeting next week, though Bradford did say she liked that Crossly McIntosh & Collier was a local firm at Tuesday’s meeting.
It employs Brian Kromke, whose opening remarks included ways he knew some of the board members, along with Norwood Blanchard III and Brian Edes; the latter two men are town attorneys for Wrightsville Beach, Leland, Belville, Navassa and Oak Island, per their proposal. Also, all attorneys have or have had children in North Carolina schools.
Kromke and Blanchard told the board Tuesday their familiarity with New Hanover County will help inform their representation of NHCS, and portrayed their firm as the more affordable option. Kromke said it will not bill for travel time because of local status, however, Crossley McIntosh & Collier’s rates were the highest of the three firms.
The price breakdown is as follows:
| Legal Services | Crossley McIntosh & Collier | Poyner Spruill | Tharrington Smith |
| Partner Rate | $295 | $255 | $240 |
| Associate Rate | $200 | $210 | $205 |
| Paralegal Rate | $150 | $120 | $100 |
| Travel Rate | None | $500 flat | Hourly, $800 to $1,000 |
| Additional Fees | None stated | $11.50 per hour | None |
Both Poyner Spruill and Tharrington Smith bill in units of tenths of an hour, rather than fourths as many firms do. However, both firms are based out of Raleigh and would need to travel for meetings.
Jason Weber, the board’s former lead counsel, clarified they like to work as much as possible during travel time and do not double-bill, meaning if another client calls during transit to NHC, they are billed for the time, not NHCS.
Cognizant of the district’s $20 million shortfall, all firms stated they were open to negotiating rates. In its proposal, Tharrington Smith said it would consider a retainer for attendance at regular board meetings.
Despite the familiarity with the area, Crossley McIntosh & Collier have not represented any school boards, though Blanchard and Kromke said their experience in governmental representation was not too different from school board work until it came to litigation and construction projects.
“Equal protection is equal protection … the principles are the same,” Blanchard said when asked about his experience with Title IX (he had only worked in Title IX, which is the equivalent federal discrimination law for the workplace).
Attorney Rachel Hitch disagreed in the subsequent presentation from Poyner Spruill, pointing out it’s very different work when the main benefactors are children.
“This is a time when school boards absolutely need school board expertise,” Hitch said.
Both Poyner Spruill and Tharrington Smith are both full-service law firms with larger teams dedicated to education law — Tharrington Smith is the largest education law firm in the state — with 11 attorneys and 20 attorneys, respectively.
Tharrington Smith currently serves as general counsel to 23 boards of education statewide and has also represented Pender County Schools before it switched to Poyner Spruill in November 2021. Poyner Spruill has also served as counsel to Brunswick County Schools and is the current representative for 16 school boards.
Each has a deep bench of experts; Poyner Spruill said it has a trained Title IX expert, a school psychologist, a former state board of education attorney, plus seven of its attorneys were former educators.
Weber said Tharrington Smith has experts in every area thinkable — including construction, first amendment, personnel, board governance, parliamentary procedure — and has some of the biggest names in education law.
Stephen Rawson, who also presented on behalf of Tharrington Smith, told the board he had been paying attention to headlines in the year since his departure from NHCS and knew special education was an important area for coverage.
“Special education has become, perhaps, the single largest issue we deal with as a firm and we’ve built our firm to respond to that,” Rawson said.
In February, the board agreed to contract with Sink Law Firm and Poyner Spruill for any special education cases after the two attorneys, Jonathan and Leigha, handling those matters at Vogel Law split from the firm.
In the Crossley McIntosh & Collier presentation, Blanchard suggested it might be prudent for the board to continue with that structure. He said hiring a small firm like itself to help with board meetings, Robert’s Rules and public records requests while contracting out for specialized cases may be more affordable for the district.
Though Kromke, who would be the lead attorney for the district, admitted there would be an adjustment period, a problem one board member noted at the meeting.
Board member Stephanie Kraybill stated she didn’t think the firm was qualified and brought up that two of its attorneys were charged with tax evasion in 2016. Blanchard and Kromke said that was before they joined the firm, the matters were settled, and neither attorney was sanctioned by the North Carolina Bar Association.
Poyner Spruill and Tharrington Smith capitalized on their knowledge and acuity of educational matters — and that it translates to savings.
“I don’t have to go looking for that information for you because it’s already in someone’s brain down the hall,” Rawson said.
Despite Tharrington Smith’ edge in intelligence in NHCS, Poyner Spruill, which has applied to represent the board three time now, demonstrated its determination in winning the bid.
“We want to work for you,” McPherson said. We’re going to keep putting in because we believe in this community and believe in the good things you’re doing and we want to be a part of that.”
Both Poyner Spruill and Tharrington Smith also homed in on avoiding litigation by preparing the district before issues arose. In the former’s case, Hitch said the firm facilitates many trainings, which can be tailored to a district’s needs.
“I’ll always go to war and defend you but I’d rather arm you,” Hitch said.
Weber, as he did when the district employed Tharrington Smith previously, said he would provide legislative updates to the board, as well as establish good working relationships with staff and the community to resolve issues before court.
“The thing about litigation is it breaks relationships and once you get there, it’s very very hard to repair those,” Rawson said.
All three firms were asked questions about their approach to differing views and conflict on the board; all three had similar responses — their job isn’t to make decisions, it’s to provide information on the law and options for the board to take.
Crossley McIntosh & Collier: “I can promise you there has not been a time when any of my board members over there have voted for the same person for president as I did and we frequently have knocked heads in the past, but your obligation is to the organization, not individual board members,” Blanchard said, referencing the 17 years he’s spent representing Navassa.
Poyner Spruill: “Zealous disagreement I support to be quite honest with you. That’s allowed on boards and that’s why you have multiple members on a board so that they can disagree with each other,” Hitch said, but added the attorney noted it erodes trust in government when there’s no respect among elected leaders. She said she would suggest a recess to provide options to the board chair when a situation of that nature arises.
Tharrington Smith: “Different boards have different goals and priorities and that’s not our business,” Weber said. He also noted he enjoyed the unique challenges that the New Hanover County Board of Education present in their use of Robert’s Rules of Order.
The board will discuss legal services further at its May 7 meeting.
Reach journalist Brenna Flanagan at brenna@localdailymedia.com
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